Sorry I haven't posted in a while... had to focus on preparations for Easter weekend...
But before too much time goes by, I wanted to ask you all what you thought about our conversations in Ephesians. We spent something like two months working our way through Paul's letter, usually with a group study format (individual time, observations and questions in small groups, and whole group sharing). The whole thing was kind of an experiment. I've never heard of a church doing that type of thing for an extended time during their church services. So some feedback from you all would be really valuable! Can you take a couple minutes to write a comment?
Let us know:
1. What was something from our time in Ephesians that was personally meaningful to you?
2. What did you think of the conversation format?
3. Do you think we should continue to do this type of discussion from time to time?
Thanks! I'll begin posting some thoughts on "community" (our current sermon theme) in a few days.
-Tim
Posts
An Interview About My Book "Entering The Fray"
11 years ago
1. I think the ideas about "identity" in Ephesians were very enlightening to me. It sparked in me a desire to examine my heart when it comes to the common questions like "who are you?" or "what is your church/spiritual community all about?" I realized that the honest answers to these questions are important to explore and "I don't know" is simply not a good answer.
ReplyDelete2. The format was okay. I think it was suited to some people more than others. I would think of it as a good template for smaller groups to draw from in order to be more "scripture-centered" without ignoring personal questions/experiences.
3. If the spirit leads you, let it be!
Thanks for asking!
If it is true that Vineyarders believe that "the only infallible rule of
ReplyDeletefaith127 and practice.128" is scripture then I feel that our time in Ephesians wondering and interpreting together was a good example of the Church's capacity to order and judge the canon of scripture and the meaning of scripture.
If there is any authority in the contemporary Church in the decentralized format that Vineyarders subscribe to then it is absolutely imperative that the body of believers as representative of the body of Christ meet in the Spirit to assign meaning to scripture.
Despite this, I question whether the conversation should occur in a Sunday morning worship service.
I for the most part enjoyed the Ephesians conversations (though I missed several). I find that being "pushed" a little to read, digest, and discuss the text helps me engage with scripture in a manner that's more in-depth and thoughtful than just a cursory reading. And I think it's great to hear what others in the body see in the text-- even if I disagree, it helps me to evaluate the text from a different angle, and to better know fellow members of the body.
ReplyDeleteI think, though, that the open-discussion format is one that should be used only very sparingly on Sunday mornings, for several reasons. For one thing, Sunday AM is your only chance each week to preach to the church and through that preaching to lead and shepherd this very young body of believers. I think that time should be used for that purpose. Also, I think the discussion format could feel very intimidating and uncomfortable for newcomers. Third, there are several personality types for which that type of format is quite difficult. For "type A" people like myself who like things to be succinct and to the point, it can feel quite meandering and random. I also think it could be a difficult format for more introverted types to connect with.
That said, I do like when you preach a full message and THEN open it up for brief questions or discussion. Not only does it give people a chance to engage more personally with the topic and the text right in the moment, but also the fact that you're willing to take questions shows that your understanding of scripture goes deeper than the surface of what you just spoke.
Sometimes perhaps you could pose the types of questions you were presenting in that format here on the blog, or through email? Perhaps that's something community groups could engage with and discuss.
My final comment would be that, beyond simply discussing the text, I think it would be of great value if we could try again intentionally to create a space for response TO God-- a prayer and ministry time afterwards to respond to the words of the message.
Tim,
ReplyDeleteI loved the experiment!!! As a newcomer, I found it to be a way to meet new people and a way for people to get to know me. From a social standpoint, it was a great thing.
Even more than the social aspect, the theology that accompanies this type of approach is, in my view, spot on. There are a few reasons I say this: Firstly, this type of approach is "community" focused and oriented and moves away from "the preacher" as the focal point (of course, God is the focal point but you know what I mean...God is not the one up there talking audibly on Sun. mornings). Secondly, this approach shows a real vulnerability before God and others. Being pushed to read, interpret and do theology before the Triune community as well as the community of believers is great. Thirdly, and this flows from the previous two points, this approach shows that the preacher doesn't have a monopoly on interpretation. Fourthly, it shows that you trust those ministering alongside of you enough to do interpretation (e.g. you're not the only one who gets to do it...this flows from the previous point). Fifthly, I am and always have been a firm believer that the church gathering should be the one place where people can come and ask questions. This allowed that to happen. Thus, non-believers, seekers, believers, etc. were all able to speak.
Also, I would like to say that this approach won me over to the kzoo vineyard. This is how church should be done in my opinion. In fact, I think this approach is closer to how the first christians did things. When you read Paul's letters, Peter's works, the Gospels, etc., you get inklings of all sorts of Jesus communities trying to do faith, theology, interpretation and life together. That's what this approach did.
Lastly, the way you set this up was great. You prefaced it with messages about how to actually, read, interpret and then apply the bible. The Ephesians series actually put it into action.
I hope you use this format again. Keep up the great work, Tim!!! BTW, the new blog skin looks good.
-TMWH
I'm very excited to do more of these Scripture discussions in the future. I happened to miss all of them this time, so I can't speak from how Ephesians went. But I think it's very appropriate to our Post-modern culture to interpret Scripture in the context of a community. I like how "Spud" said that these discussions serve as a model for how small groups can study the Bible and still share their personal lives together.
ReplyDeleteHaving a well-led discussion format helps people get to know each other better in a meaningful, no-pressure way. Also, what better way to learn how to study and interpret the Scriptures well, than some hands-on and well-structured practice.
So yeah, I like the idea of doing this format sometimes. I think it’s a good example of what our church is about. It’s community oriented. We are all learning to be mature together in our handling of the Scripture, rather than leaving that knowledge to just a few. I think this counters the individualism and isolation of our culture.
I’ve heard many people say they don’t want to go to church and be told what to think. How about a church that wants to know what you think, and can even learn from tough questions? And for those that want to come and listen, I think the format can leave space for that too.
By the way, is there a way to know when there are new posts or comments to this blog? I don’t usually think to check it unless something reminds me...